Curse

EternalTempest · Dec 31, 2009, 05:07 PM // 17:07

This is a bit of reflection from a long term (but not "consant" player).

GuildWars

Beautiful Graphics & Music
On-Demand Downloading
Free Monthy Play
Skill Vs Grind (On MANY Levels)
Constant Change

GuildWars featured beautifully graphics and top quality music when it came out. In addition the enhancements to the game engine (going from Direct X 8 -> 9) the enhancements to add 3d sound via EAX and DSound. All this was AFTER the game launched.

On-Demanding Downloading isn't so much a "feature" anymore, but when GW came out, it was a big thing. Every MMO had to be download and updated completed. This lead to new install and updates taking hours, and semi-frequent complete server downtimes. Most games do this now, however GW was one of the first.

Free Monthly Pay - The original design of Guild Wars is free play with a new campaign coming out every 6 months (staggered so in truth each campaign had 1 year of development. From Interviews the Dev's made it clear it was there job to make a compelling game that you want to buy.

They decided to go with a different model but still making GuildWars 2 free to play. There also an increase the amount of in-game store items in GW1, but feel they haven't crossed the line on the skill vs grind (see that section for more).

Skill vs Grind. Guildwars focus on skill, not time or "gear". That not to say there not grind, but in perspective, to mmo's, there isn't any. It's easy to get to lvl 20, acquire skills, get great "plain" looking equipment. You can, however, grind for great looking stuff, with same combat value. Instant map warping, etc.

Constant Change - If you play guild wars for any amount of time, the fact is it will change. Especially Skills. If you played from the start... DRASTIC system changes / evolution. Some Examples

Unable to lower attributes without speding points you "earned" with XP.
There were no runes to cusomize armor, the armor and type determined the special properites
Chests to open ..... without keys
There wasn't "allaince battles" until after Factions.
There were no "end game / reward" zone after you beat the oringal campaign.
Mini-pets didn't exist, it started as a "were sorry Faction Collector's Edition was delayed" here's a free gift.
"Titles" didn't originally exist at all.

as some highlights.

The biggest this is to have fun, if you don't find the game fun, find another guild, or expand you social groups. You can also take a break, I've taken a 6 month break even.

Even when I get bored, the amount of time I put in to GuildWars far out weighs any "cost" I've ever played.

Zinger314 · Dec 31, 2009, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Guild Wars was great until Factions, where it became apparent that ArenaNet was making things up as time goes by.

This had already been established.

EternalTempest · Dec 31, 2009, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Something wrong with a long time player that likes playing guildwars off and on?
I do realize guru tends to be a bit on the negative side of things

Barrage · Dec 31, 2009, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by EternalTempest

Constant Change

Constant Change - If you play guild wars for any amount of time, the fact is it will change. Especially Skills. If you played from the start... DRASTIC system changes / evolution. Some Examples

Unable to lower attributes without speding points you "earned" with XP.
There were no runes to cusomize armor, the armor and type determined the special properites
Chests to open ..... without keys
There wasn't "allaince battles" until after Factions.
There were no "end game / reward" zone after you beat the oringal campaign.
Mini-pets didn't exist, it started as a "were sorry Faction Collector's Edition was delayed" here's a free gift.
"Titles" didn't originally exist at all.

Sooo......... where is the change now?

EternalTempest · Dec 31, 2009, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barrage

Sooo......... where is the change now?

Removal of Team Arena, Hero Battles (replaced with Codex Battles), Adding Nicholas the trader, for example.

Barrage · Dec 31, 2009, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by EternalTempest

Removal of Team Arena, Hero Battles (replaced with Codex Battles), Adding Nicholas the trader, for example.

Codex is a failure for 50% of the PVP community and 100% of the PVE community. I'll give you the Nicholas and Z-quest updates but these updates are now being injected into a dead game, along with the nerfs to SF and 600

EternalTempest · Dec 31, 2009, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barrage

Codex is a failure for 50% of the PVP community and 100% of the PVE community. I'll give you the Nicholas and Z-quest updates but these updates are now being injected into a dead game, along with the nerfs to SF and 600

I've always felt GW maintains three types of play styles (not orginal design but outcome).PvE, Casual PvP, and Competitive PvP.

Karate Jesus · Dec 31, 2009, 05:45 PM // 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by EternalTempest

Something wrong with a long time player that likes playing guildwars off and on?
I do realize guru tends to be a bit on the negative side of things

Guru is positive when they feel the game is positive. Sure people will always bitch, but you should notice that people around here have been upset for a while and there are just as many reasons for that as your "good" list:

The XTH has been down for almost 8 months with no word.
The skill balance is 2 months late on the "new" schedule.
Ectos are skyrocketing because of Dhuum's addition and the nervousness over the SF/600 nerfs.
The PvP meta has been stagnant for around 5 months, if not longer.
Most of the new "content" added since April has come at a price - namely a monetary price. Many players don't like that Anet has moved from a free-to-play/expansion based model to a micro-transaction model.
The amount of lag in-game has been horrendous for months. Almost every time I play now I hear players complain of this and many GvG matches (including mATs) and HA matches have been won or lost based on who DC'd first.
Account thefts and account security has become a real concern. People no longer trust Anet to protect their account, and many are refusing to buy from the in-game store for fear of being accidentally banned.
Server issues have now been finally admitted to, which is something many players would have loved to hear a long time ago.
SWay, FC Bloodspike, and other terrible shitter builds have been in the meta for months and Anet has still yet to do anything about it.
There has not been a skill functionality change for 5 months, only nerfs and balances

And those are just the things I could think of off the top of my head.

I love GW and you're right on a lot of points, but the reason so many people around here are upset is because they love(d) this game and have seen its demise at the hands of its creators.

EternalTempest · Dec 31, 2009, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Guru is positive when they feel the game is positive. Sure people will always bitch, but you should notice that people around here have been upset for a while and there are just as many reasons for that as your "good" list:

The XTH has been down for almost 8 months with no word.
The skill balance is 2 months late on the "new" schedule.
Ectos are skyrocketing because of Dhuum's addition and the nervousness over the SF/600 nerfs.
The PvP meta has been stagnant for around 5 months, if not longer.
Most of the new "content" added since April has come at a price - namely a monetary price. Many players don't like that Anet has moved from a free-to-play/expansion based model to a micro-transaction model.
The amount of lag in-game has been horrendous for months. Almost every time I play now I hear players complain of this and many GvG matches (including mATs) and HA matches have been won or lost based on who DC'd first.
Account thefts and account security has become a real concern. People no longer trust Anet to protect their account, and many are refusing to buy from the in-game store for fear of being accidentally banned.
Server issues have now been finally admitted to, which is something many players would have loved to hear a long time ago.
SWay, FC Bloodspike, and other terrible shitter builds have been in the meta for months and Anet has still yet to do anything about it.
There has not been a skill functionality change for 5 months. Only nerfs have happened lately.

And those are just the things I could think of off the top of my head.

Thank you for bringing up counter points.

The PvP seem like valid concerns, my style of play falls in to pve, and casual pvp.

I haven't seen much in the way of server lag, at least in the methods of what I play, outside of the three winterfest towns. I won't say it's not happing in pvp however.

The growing ingame store has come close to the skill vs grind, however I don't think they crossed the line yet. This is something i'm looking at closely for in GW2, and if they do cross will evaluate and see if GW2 is something I'm willing to play.

They always messed around with FOW/UW farming, I don't think this has changed. The price of ecto can swing widely with speculation.

I like the added security change they done with the challenge, I know it's not perfect, but should help a bit.

Karate Jesus · Dec 31, 2009, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by EternalTempest

Thank you for bringing up counter points.

The PvP seem like valid concerns, my style of play falls in to pve, and casual pvp.

I haven't seen much in the way of server lag, at least in the methods of what I play, outside of the three winterfest towns. I won't say it's not happing in pvp however.

The growing ingame store has come close to the skill vs grind, however I don't think they crossed the line yet. This is something i'm looking at closely for in GW2, and if they do cross will evaluate and see if GW2 is something I'm willing to play.

They always messed around with FOW/UW farming, I don't think this has changed. The price of ecto can swing widely with speculation.

I like the added security change they done with the challenge, I know it's not perfect, but should help a bit.

The purpose of that post wasn't to list problems that counter your points. The purpose was to point out that if a Guru member is angry or "negative", they probably have a good reason.

Many of us love this game and are unhappy about the direction the game has taken. And the latest community relations model of "Just don't say anything" isn't helping.

sixdartbart · Dec 31, 2009, 06:12 PM // 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

The purpose was to point out that if a Guru member is angry or "negative", they probably have a good reason.

or take video games WAY too seriously.

IlikeGW · Dec 31, 2009, 06:16 PM // 18:16

I always thought it was a good base for a game.

I think things were so experimental though, that it has not always been a smooth ride for players. The MMO aspects were the most experimental and the hardest for Anet to manage by far. I think it's interesting, that if they had went into single-player RPGs like Bioware or Bethesda they'd get a million times more appreciation than they do.

So I wish them luck with solving the difficulties of MMO's. In many ways they might always be in the middle of player backlash, because it's super complicated to make a game that's playable for years. Ironically the GW series works much better if you just look at it as a campaign you play and put aside, which is what they've said before they expected people to do, although I don't know why. You put the MMO hooks in people are going to expect something out of the game, a long life, a lot of content... a USE for the MMO part in other words. Hopefully GW2 gets that from day 1... otherwise they should just make single-player games.

Axel Zinfandel · Dec 31, 2009, 06:17 PM // 18:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by EternalTempest

Thank you for bringing up counter points.

The PvP seem like valid concerns, my style of play falls in to pve, and casual pvp.

trouble is, a lot of people here don't consider your opinions valid unless you play competitive PvP. I for one think that's a load of bull, but I guess my opinions aren't valid either :P

At any rate, the player base is stupid for expecting the same ammount of stuff to be cranked out while the team is heavily working on a second game.

Anet is also failing in their priorities with GW. They are cranking things that many view as unnecessary, while ignoring things that need to be adressed (see karate's list)

Karate Jesus · Dec 31, 2009, 06:17 PM // 18:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixdartbart

or take video games WAY too seriously.

Or that could be the problem

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel

At any rate, the player base is stupid for expecting the same ammount of stuff to be cranked out while the team is heavily working on a second game.

The team that works on GW "supposedly" doesn't share resources with the team that works on GW2. I've even been told by Linsey that that is a poor excuse.

Axel Zinfandel · Dec 31, 2009, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

The team that works on GW "supposedly" doesn't share resources with the team that works on GW2. I've even been told by Linsey that that is a poor excuse.

I'm just saying if you have a group of.. 5 people cutting down one tree, you can't expect them to cut down the same tree in the same time with 2 people working on it.

I mean, I'm under the impression that the same people that have been working on GW are now working on GW2. Therefor I can assume that less people are working on GW1 now that GW2 is being developed (which is a he'll of a lot more than one metaphorical tree)

Karate Jesus · Dec 31, 2009, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel

I'm just saying if you have a group of.. 5 people cutting down one tree, you can't expect them to cut down the same tree in the same time with 2 people working on it.

I mean, I'm under the impression that the same people that have been working on GW are now working on GW2. Therefor I can assume that less people are working on GW1 now that GW2 is being developed (which is a he'll of a lot more than one metaphorical tree)

The GWLT is made up of 8 people (source). iirc, there used to only be 3 on the Live Team and separate team for skill balancing and CR.

Kerwyn Nasilan · Dec 31, 2009, 06:29 PM // 18:29

I honestly don't see much wrong with the game but to each thier own:
PvP, I don't really care (FYI just because you PvP does not mean you are better or that PvP is better, I know most people are not that way but there are plenty of them out there.)
High End Farming? I have no plans to buy more super expensive skins so I don't really care. FoWSC is fun enough and a decent source of income but I will not complain when it is nerfed. Nor am I complaining that It is to easy to farm.
Lag? I don't get any here, and when I do it's not that bad.
XTH? You can't have free money, boohoo.
Skill Balance? Don't PvP doesn't effect me.
Micro Transactions? If people want costumes and at the same time help support ANet and make my experience better I say let them.
Account Security, while I have not been hacked I do agree ANet could handle this better.

So while there may be issues with the game for some people I feel it is still plenty of fun, and thanks OP for bringing up all the wonderful things about the game.

Karate Jesus · Dec 31, 2009, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kerwyn Nasilan

I honestly don't see much wrong with the game but to each thier own:
PvP, I don't really care (FYI just because you PvP does not mean you are better or that PvP is better, I know most people are not that way but there are plenty of them out there.)
High End Farming? I have no plans to buy more super expensive skins so I don't really care. FoWSC is fun enough and a decent source of income but I will not complain when it is nerfed. Nor am I complaining that It is to easy to farm.
Lag? I don't get any here, and when I do it's not that bad.
XTH? You can't have free money, boohoo.
Skill Balance? Don't PvP doesn't effect me.
Micro Transactions? If people want costumes and at the same time help support ANet and make my experience better I say let them.
Account Security, while I have not been hacked I do agree ANet could handle this better.

So while there may be issues with the game for some people I feel it is still plenty of fun, and thanks OP for bringing up all the wonderful things about the game.

So if it doesn't concern you, then it doesn't matter? Well, I'm sure the gaming community will be very happy to hear this.

Jinkies · Dec 31, 2009, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Guru is positive when they feel the game is positive. Sure people will always bitch, but you should notice that people around here have been upset for a while and there are just as many reasons for that as your "good" list:

The XTH has been down for almost 8 months with no word.
The skill balance is 2 months late on the "new" schedule.
Ectos are skyrocketing because of Dhuum's addition and the nervousness over the SF/600 nerfs.
The PvP meta has been stagnant for around 5 months, if not longer.
Most of the new "content" added since April has come at a price - namely a monetary price. Many players don't like that Anet has moved from a free-to-play/expansion based model to a micro-transaction model.
The amount of lag in-game has been horrendous for months. Almost every time I play now I hear players complain of this and many GvG matches (including mATs) and HA matches have been won or lost based on who DC'd first.
Account thefts and account security has become a real concern. People no longer trust Anet to protect their account, and many are refusing to buy from the in-game store for fear of being accidentally banned.
Server issues have now been finally admitted to, which is something many players would have loved to hear a long time ago.
SWay, FC Bloodspike, and other terrible shitter builds have been in the meta for months and Anet has still yet to do anything about it.
There has not been a skill functionality change for 5 months, only nerfs and balances

And those are just the things I could think of off the top of my head.

I love GW and you're right on a lot of points, but the reason so many people around here are upset is because they love(d) this game and have seen its demise at the hands of its creators.

Your numbers 2,4,9 and 10 are the same thing.

Karate Jesus · Dec 31, 2009, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jinkies

Your numbers 2,4,9 and 10 are the same thing.

Depends on how you read them

. I'm relatively sure that Anet has done skill balance before w/o addressing major PvP issues. But of course....I could be wrong.